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Talk:Umberto III of Italy
As I review the history, I suspect that HT took for granted that the historical and living Victor Emanuel, who would have probably reigned as Vittorio Emanuele IV upon the death of Umberto II, would have died by 2010, hence this fictional character. Instead, Victor Emanuel is alive, and will be 73 next month. Which has nothing to do with anything. TR 23:50, January 7, 2010 (UTC) :73? That's not too old. I wouldn't be counting on someone dying by that age. ::Normally, neither would I, but Victor Emanuel has led an.....interesting life up till now. Making it to 73 is, for him, somewhat remarkable. TR 15:37, January 8, 2010 (UTC) :::Oh? Can't say I know anything about him. Turtle Fan 18:40, January 8, 2010 (UTC) ::::Neither did I until I did some homework. Presently, he is facing trial for something akin to procurring prostitutes. He was tried in France in the 1980s for murder (found not guilty, but was convicted of a lesser gun possession charge). He's gotten into fistfights in the last couple of years. Obviously, as king, he wouldn't necessaryily be doing this kind of stuff, but he'd certainly have plenty of opportunity to indulge in other life-shorting behaviors. TR 18:59, January 8, 2010 (UTC) :::::Glad he's having such an exciting life. Turtle Fan 19:49, January 8, 2010 (UTC) :Maybe he just pulled this one out of his ass. The world leaders of the ItPoME 21st century are very annoyingly named. Either it's "I'll ignore the fact that there's a perfectly viable historical figure and make someone up," "I'll tease you with someone like Henry IX, a descendant of the, umm, childless Edward VIII," or "I'm afraid Waldheim will take legal action so I'm going to call him Haldweim instead! See how clever and badass I am?" It's enough to make me very glad HT hasn't written any other 21st century novels. Turtle Fan 04:17, January 8, 2010 (UTC) ::You do realize that after two marriages, Wallis Simpson had no children either, although that probably bulsters the Henry IX is not related to Edward VIII argument. TR 15:49, January 8, 2010 (UTC) :::Meaning it's likely she who was infertile, and if he had remarried he could have had children? And once people realized this, the pressure to produce an heir would have led him to do that? Possibly, especially if the Nazis were pushing him because they thought the alternative was the throne reverting to George's line. I guess that's the strongest argument against Henry IX being Prince Harry as well. So I guess we've shown that HT just pulled a king out of his ass. Perhaps after Edward's death some more distant relative ascended? Turtle Fan 18:40, January 8, 2010 (UTC) ::::Your whole theory is plausible. (It also helps explain Charles III in T2G). Remember, HT doesn't say explicitly anything about Henry 9's lineage. I've always assumed a descent from Edward because Edward and Hitler tended to get along pretty famously, Edward said too many positive things about Adolf even after war was on, etc. But in many respects, the door is wide open. London was pretty badly ravaged during the invasion. Maybe the Nazis had to find an entirely different puppet because the likely claimants had fled or were killed. :::::You know, there are plenty of German nobility who descend from British kings. Could the Germans install one of them? Another possibility, throughout British history one can find unpopular monarchs who had their children taken from them and raised by more politically correct surrogates, so that the royal lineage could be maintained but the heir to the throne could be raised to promote whatever system was desired. Maybe Elizabeth and her sister, whose name escapes me at the moment, grew up at Edward's court? Or maybe Elizabeth was skipped since she was old enough to remember antebellum Britain. Maybe a match was arranged by Edward, and Elizabeth's firstborn son was proclaimed heir to the throne? ::::It dawned on me the other day that while I'm not precisely salivating for sequels to many HT projects, prequels are a different thing. TR 18:53, January 8, 2010 (UTC) :::::I agree. Prequels would be fun. For as long as I've thought about it, my number one project I'd most like to see HT do is a series of stories set on pre-World War Home (and Rabotev 2, and Halless 1). Turtle Fan 19:49, January 8, 2010 (UTC) There is no reason to think Umberto is the real Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples. HT give us next to nothing about the man save his name (we're educated guessing his number). Historically, no king of Italy has changed his name upon ascension. The current Vittorio Emanuele would have been the fourth of that name, and there is no reason at all to think he'd have changed it to Umberto in ItPoME. TR 16:07, February 19, 2012 (UTC) Fictional descendants of historical figures This king is listed in the "Fictional descendants of historical figures" box, but Henry IX isn't; neither king's actual lineage is stated. Similarly in Southern Victory, Dom Pedro IV is in the box, but Charles XI isn't. I agree that U3 and Dom P4 probably are descended from earlier kings, and that it's likely that H9 and C11 are too.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 07:14, October 31, 2016 (UTC) :We know absolutely nothing about C11. We will not be making any presumptions about his lineage. :We know that the UK was in a constant state of uprising until the 1970s in ItPoME. Uprisings kill people, and don't always recognize class divisions among its victims. Moreover, we don't know anything about H9 beyond his name. Therefore, I don't think making that presumption is the best course of action. :Conversely, we have no reason to think that the House of Savoy was toppled in Italy in ItPoME or the House of Braganza in Brazil in 191. TR (talk) 14:08, October 31, 2016 (UTC)